|
|
This web site operated by:-Alfred.
The proper scientific method is to collect all possible data and review it to see what views or theories it could, or could not support, sometimes it is not conclusive, and could be seen as supporting opposing theories. It is a reasonable and wise thing to analyse the actual claims of opposing views as this helps to clarify your own understanding, and pick up on small details you may have overlooked, or not realised the importance of. The problem with debating is that there is more than a tendency to erect a "straw man" version of the opposing views, because that is easier to destroy and ridicule. In researching both sides I see that the evolutionary camp seem to misrepresent the claims of ID and creationists or dismiss them altogether as nonsense. You can't honestly debate and disprove their understanding of science unless you have investigated their reasoning, from their books, published articles or the web, and they do publish in peer reviewed science publications, but usually with the ID aspects muted.
Studied fully?
Open discussion needed.
Rather evolved.
Delusion.
Doesn't invalidate.
Randomness disrupts.
The simplest cell.
The simplest cell, Mycoplasma genitalium requires only 482 types of proteins to perform it's necessary functions and 562,000 bases of DNA to assemble those proteins. Proteins are formed by amino acids, there are 20 biologically used amino acids, and others that occur naturally that cannot be used in living things. In a natural pre-life environment , assuming somehow right handed amino acids are excluded and also the unusable amino acids, then to form a particular protein, as used in life, of average length of 150 amino acids the chance of getting the correct acid in each of the 150 positions is 1 chance in 20, for each, times 150 positions. This is roughly 1 chance in 10195, and then you only have one protein, which still has to be folded correctly, in a mess of harmful chemistry, and you need another 482 types of protein and hundreds, or more, of each, and then to get them joined into a bacterium, that hasn't yet any DNA. To get these numbers in perspective there have only been 1017seconds since the supposed Big Bang. Functional proteins are exceedingly rare among all the possible combinations of amino acids.
The key.
Snowflakes, crystals.
It's not natural.
Holding randomness to account.
Out of Bounds.
How to find a designer
Consider other beliefs.
In many countries witch doctors are very powerful and can cast spells that can kill people. All these are based on fear and control, not for the benefit of the people, never to build them up with love and a good purpose. None of these have any clear claims of a creator/designer,and most just believe that everything always has been, with no beginning or end. With some if you earn enough merit you eventually, after many reincarnations, become a speck of purity so small you can't be found. Not much of an inspiration as I see it, as what is the benefit in the end? Just to escape the "rat race"? Perhaps the rat race is much more interesting! Moslems believe there is a god and worship, or submit to, one who tells them to "slay the infidel where ever you find them". That means any non-Muslim, probably you. Many of them have taken the Quran so seriously that they gladly blow themselves up to kill and maim other people, even other muslims. You will have seen much of this on the News. Is this the sort of belief you want in your society? If not then oppose it. In most countries this is considered murder, and we know where all murderers go for all eternity. It's their decision, but we don't want that for them.
One who cares for people.
If you consider that there might actually be a designer why not try to get to know him. You can puzzle about this for years, or take the short cut. If you seriously honestly follow the following instructions you will get to know the creator/designer, usually within a few days, and your life will change for the better.
How to get to know the creator/DESIGNER! The Biblical information you need.
References:-
Ref 1.
* ATP: The Perfect Energy Currency for the Cell ATP: Energy Currency for the Cell
* Origin of Life: Instability of Building Blocks Instability of Building Blocks
Mitochrondrial ATP Formation. For clarity see the full map at iubmb-nicholson gif 12. Remember that according to Crick all this complexity is not designed, just accidental! Can you believe that?
Comments, criticisms and suggestions gratefully received. It helps to know what people want to know about.
http://evolution.htmlplanet.com
alfredem@paradise.net.nz.
The case against Intelligent Design!
Look at the evidence!
First look at the actual evidence and see how evolution could have come up with the complexity of design that is essential for the first replicating system. This is something that cannot be tested in the laboratory, although many tests have been done based on what the conditions were assumed to be in the beginning. We cannot tell now what the conditions really were back then, or what extra forces there may have been acting upon chemicals then, that are not acting now. Attempts to theoretically create a "primordial pool" that could have enabled unknown extra forces to assemble replicating proteins or RNA or DNA fail because of the probability of wrong reactions hindering the process in present scenarios.
Richard Dawkins explained evolution in "Me thinks it is like a weasel" as simple to understand, showing how random mutations and accidental connections create proteins etc, progressing on to fully fledged life. ( see Dawkins weasel, on the index page. ) Darwin explained that in some small primordial pool, various elements attached in such a way that they started replicating, and by many chance events built up into a proper replicating cell. You need to investigate that if complexity of design is considered to be less than the minimum cell then how could it progress by blind chance and mutations to produce the complexity of a cell, with an outer protective membrane? In many of the books and debates I have seen this is just seen as shrouded in mystery, or too complex to explain to the reader, so is covered with vague rhetoric inferring that it happened. It must have happened because we are here! No! We are here so how did it happen? Science should be open to new research data, on the DNA and processes in life, so keep an open mind, and try to see for yourself how evolution could have produced life, and all its complexity. Do your own research and evaluation, it is your life that will be effected by the decisions and beliefs you chose, as these will affect how you live, with or without drugs, alcohol and the reliability of your relationships, and how you value people, and they value you, and what you aspire to.
Have you studied the actual scientific information that is available showing the incredible processes that go on in a "simple" cell? What you are taught at school and university is carefully crafted to support evolution, as that is the subject being taught, and the exams are on that.
If you only go to dedicated evolutionary web sites or publications you will only see one side and never fully understand the inter-related complexity of the many complex systems in even "simple" living things. Evolution must explain how life started, because evolution cannot happen without life being operational, but most evolutionists distance themselves from this problem, saying it needs a lot more research, or that it is not a part of the evolution paradigm. There are many theories, proteins first, DNA first, RNA first, this latter seems to be the most popular at present. The simplist replicating cell has about a half a million DNA codes, or million DNA codes in Venters research project, even just one code error, as Venter Industries found out, can end the replicating process. see Venter on the index page.
Electron microscopes, Xrays etcetera have greatly increased our knowledge of the minute details of many complex systems within cells. Many highly qualified scientists have been so surprised at the complexity, they have tried to imagine how evolution could eventually arrive at such systems and interrelated design requirements that seem to be impossible to arrive at by blind chance and random mutations. This has given rise to the Intelligent Design Theory, and there are many publications about this in highly respected publications, but usually with the ID aspects muted, otherwise it wouldn't get printed, as evolutionists control many of the scientific publications. Claiming that ID is not science in spite of the fact that many highly qualified scientists who study the actual data cannot reconcile what they see with the claimed evolutionary processes, is just evolutionists attempt to erect a defensive wall to hide behind, from the need to consider some variations to their theory. The science should be openly discussed so that if ID is not true then it can be shown, but evolutionists and humanists are afraid that there just may be an intelligent source that does account for all of life, so they rail against anybody who suggests that there could be an intelligent source of life, least the evolutionary paradigm fails. This shuts down any research that just might disprove ID, least it harms evolution in the process.
Francis Crick, co discoverer of the actual layout of the DNA said thirty five years later, biologists must "constantly keep in mind that what they see was not designed, but rather evolved". Ref1. F. Crick. I wonder why he would believe that, he doesn't give any evidence for it. This is not a scientific attitude, because it restricts the outcome of any scientific research to a fixed opinion, whereas science should freely find where the evidence leads irrespective of any and all opinions. As Richard Dawkins said, "The machine code of the genes is uncannily computer-like". Ref2. R Dawkins. Software developer Bill Gates goes further "DNA is like a computer program but far far more advanced than any software ever created". Ref3 Bill Gates.
In "The God Delusion" Prof. Richard Dawkins claims that Intelligent Design fails because it claims a designer without explaining the designer, or who designed the designer. Many highly qualified scientists who are avowed evolutionists or atheists support ID because that is what they see in their research, but ID is only about design, not who or where a designer might be, or have been, if he ever was. It is only the Christians who extend this to the Bible explaining who and where the designer is, their private add on to the science of ID, but this does not change ID, as it is not about who the designer is, but only how to account for the obvious design features in all life, and the inability of evolutionary ideas to give a reasonable explanation at the present time.
Prof. Richard Dawkins claim of who designed the designer, does not invalidate ID, the evidence is there for everyone to see, and interpret as they see fit. Once design is established, then look for evidence of who or where a designer could be. An electric motor is not invalidated just because we cannot "see" the electricity, the distant generation system, or the identify the motors designer. Similarly we don't have to know the designer to realise there must have been one, just as I don't know the designer/builder of the house I am in, but I am certain that one, or they, existed many years ago. Normally in a properly designed house the kitchen sink is not beside the bed, and the toilet is not in the kitchen, and if a horse only had two eyes mounted by the tail looking rearward these would all be illogical design features for an intelligent source, but could easily be explained by the flexibility of evolutionary story telling. Such as if you are always being attacked from behind it would be great to know just when to kick your attacker! Randomness, mutations, and lack of intelligence could do ridiculous things, as I have found out when not thinking ahead, while making up some project, but on proper research, living things are found to be well designed, or have corrupted from a good design, by mutations.
Design can easily be recognised by complex interconnected systems that random processes would not form, but would disrupt. Scientists have found highly complex "machines" like the ATPase motor, ATP refs. and many other machine like devices that are essential in cells. these have been discussed in many prestigious publications, but usually with an unsubstantiated claim that "evolution did it", the "god" of the evolutionists, which seldom appears to be supported by the scientific evidence just given in the article. The flagellar of bacteria is often debated. Often it is claimed you can imagine a simpler system by reducing the count of some components. This is like imagining a simpler version of a car. Most have four wheels, but some have only three, only one in front, so don't brake hard while cornering. A simpler version is only two wheels, a motorbike, or even a bicycle, but look at the total amount of inventing needed to go up from a bicycle. Consider the history of early cars, horse drawn carriages onwards, even the silly designs had to be thought out and manufactured. Design information can only come from a mind and it must also have access to a manipulative system to be able to manufacture and assemble the components. Cars only have a few thousand components, a simple cell has millions, as all the atoms for all the chemistry have to be controlled, and so that only the correct handed amino acids, sugars etc are used, then assembled in the correct order, folded, and then put into use.
In order for the complexity of life there has to be information in the DNA on how to make proteins, enzymes etc, and how to obtain nutrients (requires designed equipment at the very start before the cell starves) and how and when to replicate.
If the ' present is the key to the past' then study the present world for sources of information and design. you will find that these always start from, or emanate from an intelligent mind. There is no other source, snowflakes, crystals random events or unguided chemical reactions etc, do not produce information, but an intelligent mind can make deductions about them.
Evolutionists frequently muddy the waters by claiming that snowflakes, crystals etc prove that information comes about by accidents of nature, but this is just due to random formations due to attractions between atoms and molecules, and no energy, force or control is exercised over their formation, so there is no coherent information or purpose in the formation. Because there is no guidance there would be no useful information, all is meaningless, but even if some was considered to be information then how did how could it get embedded in the DNA or RNA of a living entity?
In the formation of life the atoms, molecules etc have to be formed into amino acids, sugars and many other things. Amino acids and sugars both come in left and right handed versions of about equal numbers, both in the natural non-life and beginning of life research, and must be controlled as only the correct handed ones can be used in life, left for acids, and right for sugars. Then directive chemical forces have to be applied to join them into the required chains or forms. This is a process that will not occur naturally, as there is no natural sorting or process to produce the ordered complexity required for such as proteins, RNA or DNA.
Once you have got through all this and realised that randomness cannot account for the start of life, or for the information and design involved for more complex life-forms, you can then proceed to the problem of who is the designer, does he still exist, can he be contacted? If you can solve this section then perhaps you can ask the designer who he is, who his parents are, who made/created them, where do they live, does anybody hold him to account for his actions, or the violence in this world, etcetera. Does he have a conscience, does he fix his mistakes.
If such a designer is outside of our realm or time zone, is he obliged to explain himself to us, or does he consider it sufficient that we should know that he exists just because we exist? Isn't the wonderful array of complex life sufficient to convince people that there is a creator? If he tried to explain it could we understand the concept? See the reference to "in the beginning" beginning as this gives reasons why he would not give us a full explanation, as it would be counter-productive to his purposes. The web page "in the beginning" gives about as good as you can get for the reasons for this world and why God has not given everyone the ability to clearly see our ultimate destination. It may be counter-productive for God, but is essential for all of us to realise our purpose, and the marvelous prospects God has for us, if we are willing to step out in faith.
If there is a designer was he just messing around and then threw the world away as junk? Did he, or could he have had, a purpose? In all the worlds history and literature is there any coherent claim that there is a creator/designer? The Greek gods never seemed to have a sensible purpose, or even to behave sensibly, so they don't count, nor do thousands of other irrational gods in ancient history. Are there people who believe there is a designer/creator, if so then why. Do some people believe there are forces/entities that we cannot see, such as spirits? Do some things happen that cannot be explained by science or just plain luck?
To answer some of these questions consider beliefs in Asian countries, China and many others. There is a strong belief in the spiritual realm, and that the spirits must be appeased, to ward off bad luck. As one Thai Buddhist wrote:-
My mother makes me look after our family spirit house. I have to make offerings and worship there every morning. It makes me afraid. My brother says if I do it wrong the spirits will be angry and punish me.
A Thai ex-Buddhist Christian boy wrote:-
I feel like God is always in my heart, like a friend, a father, and everything.
Should people live in fear, as in the first quote, or have the freedom and joyful confident outlook of the latter? Many Buddhists are coming to Jesus for the release from depressing and controlling spirits, and for a loving relationship. This is also why many Muslims are taking the risk of their lives and defecting to Christ, because there is a real contact with God, who loves and cares for them. They may be killed for changing their belief, but existence doesn't end there, it is just the start of eternal joy for those who worship God our creator. (see extended notes)
There is one other God and he cares for people, wants the best for them, and has given prophesies long ago detailing what things will come to pass. Many have been fulfilled, but some have come about in our lifetime, and some are obviously about to come true. In a scientific sense this is a proof that someone knew long ago, 2000 to 6000 years ago what would come about, or had planed it and is controlling things. These are things that no human or group could have worked out a few thousand years ago. Though some think they are in control, and it is their agenda that is being followed on the world stage, they are actually following predictions that will be to their own destruction, and of many others. This was quite well written up years ago, and is readily available to people in democratic countries. The earliest prophesies that I know of are written up in "Patriarchs" see ref. below. Patriarchs
Hebrew characters each have a meaning, and the names of the patriarchs tell a plan. Return to patriarchs Ref.
Understand why there was a beginning, and your purpose.
Return to Beginning Ref.
Crick, What Mad Pursuit,138.Return to Crick Ref.
Ref 2.
Dawkins, River out of Eden, 17.Return to Dawkins Ref.
Ref 3.
Gates, The Road Ahead,188. Return to Gates Ref.
ATP References: Return to ATP ref.
Jerry Bergman discusses this intricate and complex energy
storage mechanism, necessary in its entirety for even the
simplest? form of life to survive.
Jonathan Sarfati demonstrates that producing a few chemical
building blocks lends far less credibility to the naturalistic
origin of life (abiogenesis) hypothesis than popularly imagined.
![[ ATP Map For full
high resolution go to http://www.iubmb-nicholson.org/gif/12.html ]]( jpgs/minimito.gif ) | ![[ Directory is at:-
http://www.iubmb-nicholson.org/minimaps.html ]]( jpgs/dirlist1.gif )
|
![[Directory is at:-
http://www.iubmb-nicholson.org/minimaps.html]]( jpgs/dirlist2.gif ) |
| ATP FORMATION. iubmb-nicholson gif 12 iubmb-nicholson.org/minimaps directory |
Extended notes
Why are Muslims so keen to kill people who are free to worship any god they choose?
What spiritual force would want to keep you from the God who loves you with an everlasting love?
Mary's reply to the Angel: Sura :3-47 '"Oh my Lord! How shall I have a son when no man has touched me?' The angel replied, 'Even so: God (Allah) createth what He willeth: when He hath decreed a Plan, He but said to it, "Be," and it is!'"So who was the father of Jesus, if not he who created him? Allah has no son, so he is not the same as the Christian God, who created all the heavens and earth, whose SON is very important to all of us.
Verse taken from "Summary of the Quran" by Dr Sarfraz Ahmed Siddiqui.
The verse numbers vary according to the translation used.
You may freely copy any of my files and print it out provided you keep my Email and web address on it.
This web site operated by:-Alfred.
Comments, criticisms and suggestions gratefully received. It helps to know what people want to know about.
http://evolution.htmlplanet.com
alfredem@paradise.net.nz.
URLs with scientific information on the subject
or guidance not based on hype.
If you have been snubbing God because you believe in evolution, you need to read about the many things that show that evolution cannot happen. One good evidence is the tiny acid driven rotary motor that is in every cell of your body, to produce ATP, from ADP, the cells energy fuel. Read "ATP The perfect Energy Currency for the Cell", and other evidence
at:-
True
Origin -Fascinating, easily understood data on evolution's problems.
www.creation.com
-Creation.com Presents the creationist side of the debate. Includes many articles and audio and video files of debates and discussions on the issue. Extensive scientific and general interest Articles, showing how well most science and fossils fit into the biblical perspective.
Exchangedlife.com
A section on creation/evolution and some articles on prophesy, some of which is still ahead of us, showing that someone back then knew the
future.
About family life and values:- Above Rubies -See the latest
experiences and testimonies at Above Rubies.
How to get to know the creator/designer! The Biblical information you need.
Comments, criticisms and suggestions gratefully received. It helps to know what people want to know about.
Focus on Family values - Guidance
for a good life style, that is based on good principles.
This web page operated by:- Alfred
alfredem@paradise.net.nz. http://evolution.htmlplanet.com
.